Cerebral palsy sunrise. What is going on? It is Nathan and doctor Fon
and we are finally here. I told you
at one o'clock, I told you we would be back. So
we are keeping our word. All the life circumstances are taken care of.
And uh we are gonna dive in
today and talk about part two of sex. Let's talk about it.
Uh
And so let me throw up our our first question here
and
it
is this right here.
So
Michelle, what is your biggest takeaway
from last week?
Uh
I had such a blast hanging out with you in this group last week, the chat box was,
was booming. And I always get so much out of talking with people about this topic
because as much as I'm able to support other people where they're at,
other people,
just hold space for me to be human and have my
own layers of the onion if you will to peel back.
And it's always a great reflection to me of like,
you know,
the work continues Michelle, stay fierce
and, and that's really where
I was at at the end of our talk. That was my biggest takeaway.
How about you?
How about me? So
actually,
I like the fact that you went first because
you made me think of
the idea that yeah,
doing this,
whether it's you guys in the audience or it's Michelle
that talking to other people and just sharing experiences is so
important.
And my biggest takeaway honestly is everybody's openness to even talk about this.
Like
we're just two strangers on the internet
and, and you guys were open and honest with what
shows up for you. And I think, uh
that's really what we focus on as, as coaches is. Um,
we're about doing the work for ourselves because
if I'm not willing to be open and vulnerable with you,
why should I expect you to do the same
with me? So that's a huge takeaway for me and I see we've got several people joining.
I see John has joined
uh, hey John and hey Jody, great to see you.
Um
Yeah, so that's, that's my biggest takeaway and we'd love to hear from you guys too.
Uh, if you watched the first video or you joined us live,
what was your biggest takeaway from the conversation?
We'd love to hear uh from you guys
and uh
I'm sure there's gonna be some amazing gems that you guys drop as well.
So,
yeah, go ahead.
I,
I was just gonna say I love what you shared about your biggest takeaway and
I think it speaks to kind of where we're going with our conversation today,
which I'm super excited about.
Yeah, guys. Uh So
you heard me talk about even before we started this,
uh
when Michelle said she was coming on, I said I was gonna be
open to some coaching
and before we even started today,
she said, do you wanna know the questions?
I'm gonna ask you, she started to ask me, I was like, I don't wanna know,
I, I just want to ba
soul be natural and whatever comes up comes up
and, and that's really what it's about.
So I think before we dive into any of that, right,
let's talk about who we are for anybody who's new and why is this important to us?
So I will let ladies go first.
But before I do that,
you caught me with something when you said stay fierce.
That's why you wore the leopard print today, right?
Yes, absolutely.
And I, and I think unconsciously it was, I'm like,
I gotta be fierce for this conversation.
But you know, and it's also because I am open to your coaching as well.
You create safe spaces for
my growth.
And I know that I'm always gonna get a shifted
perspective when you and I talk about things too.
So
I'm, I'm staying fierce and
um I'm, I too am ready for the shifts that can happen here.
Um
So with that, I'll introduce myself. My name is Doctor Michelle
Feyen.
I have my phd in clinical sexology. And I am a relationship and intimacy coach
and
what I really, my, my purpose, my why
I like going alongside people and helping them have those shifts for themselves
when it comes to their ability to have
great love, great relationships, great sex and just all of it.
And my specialty is working with people who have disabilities.
I myself am a person with a physical disability and
for a long time, I didn't believe that I could have all of those things.
So I can really relate to that space.
And because of that, I feel like it's my superpower to kind of shine the light of like,
no, we're going this way and it can totally be possible.
So
that's a little bit about me.
How about you, Mr Nathan Todd?
Yeah, guys.
Well, you know, I'm in here, I'm a moderator, so I've got cerebral palsy shocker.
Um And
it's funny, I was just talking to somebody about this before we hopped on too and,
and they were asking why I got into the, the realm of connection.
And so
I really got into it because first and foremost, when I think about my coaching,
if I could serve anyone,
it would be people within our community.
Um And that's because I know the realization of
um
coaching and things like that aren't often
are often offered
as possibilities for our community.
Um
But I had a coach one time and he asked me.
He said,
what's the thing you think your friends need?
Um, they have a problem with
and they need help solving.
And I said, I think
we are all looking for connection and we stay at the surface level. Most of the time
we talk about the weather, we talk about sports,
we uh go out and drink
and then when we really need the support of people,
we don't have the skills
to ask the scary questions.
And that's really what all of this is, right?
Whether it's self esteem, whether it's sexual self esteem,
let's be for real. A lot of people are probably sitting there thinking
and this is a scary topic. I don't know if I want to go here
and find the answer. And so
I know that
you people are so much more
than they often give themselves credit for.
But it's in that reality of
if somebody says, how are you doing? And they say fine.
Uh Usually it's not fine.
Usually that means that uh
something's fucked up, that's what I like to say.
Fine, fine equals fucked up. So,
and it's about digging deeper into
what's actually going on. And so
that's why I'm passionate about connection. And I know that
for us as a community,
our labels get in the way of our connection all the time.
Absolutely. And I think, you know, for some of us, we've got
multiple labels, right? That are put there
by other people so then there's even that level of, like, not feeling in control of,
like, these labels that are, are slapped on you.
Yeah.
Yeah. And that's,
that's really what we're seeking. Right. A lot of the times is
we want to be in control of everything
and
guess what? That's not realistic.
There's very few things that we actually have control over.
Um, and I think it's about finding that acceptance of that fact.
That gives a little bit of freedom.
Mhm.
Absolutely.
Who
going deep real quick already,
the way we do things,
the way it goes here. And I think too,
you know, things being out of control, if,
if we attach a negative connotation to that
and attach fear to that,
then we don't have these conversations. Right.
But
in finding other people and, and in being brave and,
and opening up that line of communication and that opportunity for connection,
we then hold that space for the difficult conversations.
And I, I mean, with you, Nathan, you are just very skilled at doing that.
So there's a level of safety there of like,
all right, let's dive deep then because I'm diving with
a dive master now.
It's just, it's not just me and my snorkel and me, you know, relying on this,
this little flashlight anymore.
I actually have someone who's with me, who knows the lay of the land down there.
And I think that that's what a coach.
That's what a good coach. Does and, and does for,
I'm
wearing the right shirt because it's a Hawaiian shirt
so we definitely can go snorkeling in Hawaii.
So
uh I'm, I'm down for that, that's for sure.
Yeah.
Right.
We're all,
I think we're all down for that at this point in the uh COVID era of life for sure.
Um
So yeah, let's,
let's continue the conversation and make sure if you guys have questions that come
up as you hear the conversation or you have things you wanna add,
make sure and put your comments.
We are checking
what everybody's saying and we want you guys to be a part of the conversation.
We don't just want it to be us talking.
Uh we hear enough of ourselves all the time so we want you to be a part of it
but
uh
where are we with
a steam
John?
Oh What it is.
Hi John. We see you. Hey, Bill. Hey Charles. Hey Jody.
It's a it it can be a lot but we're here, we're here to talk it out.
So
yeah,
so let's go there.
Yeah, so guess what?
I'll go first, I'll I'll let you uh put me through the ringer first
and you, you can ask me whatever questions.
Um One thing though, before, before we, we dive there,
I think this is important because you guys have
been asking a lot of questions through the week
and I think this is important
because there was um comments about
LGBT Q
and having relationships and
having um
conversations around what that is like as well.
And I want you to know we heard you and we're
working on getting other people to be a part of the conversation
to uh offer that perspective as well. But I just wanted to throw that out.
Um So you guys know that we're hearing you
and everything we're offering is just from our experience. So,
uh we hear you and we want you to be a part of the conversation too.
Yeah, absolutely. So that's where we're going with our, our next conversation.
Um And then, you know,
if you didn't have a chance to check out our first conversation,
we talked about the difference between self esteem and then sexual self esteem
and you can go back and,
and listen to that one to see what came through for us.
But the, the nitty gritty is that you could be really pretty good
with self esteem.
But then find that when it comes to viewing yourself as a confident sexual being
that you might be a little bit lower on that
continuum when we're like scaling it here.
Um Let's see, Ben says, how do you
um oh, well,
someone to know that you need help but not make
them turn away because you need help and think that
they would be a caregiver in the relationship. Oh, this is great, Ben
because that's a, that's a concern that comes up for,
for those of us with physical disabilities, if we do need a bit of help,
and when we're looking at our sexual self esteem,
that is a quality that interferes with our ability to
see ourselves in the light that we want to be.
So what Nathan and I decided we were going to do today was we were going to
kind of show how
we would have a coaching session
about
this topic, this sexual self esteem topic. So what I would encourage you all to do
is to as Nathan is kind of being walked through the session bravely,
um reflect on it for yourself as I'm asking these reflection questions
and
share in the chat box, what comes up for you and we can have it be a discussion
and
we can kind of go from there. Does that sound good?
We'll see after you start asking the questions.
Ok. So
our, our sexual self esteem,
our
bodies,
our physical being, that's where self esteem
and sexual self esteem, like our desire, our sexuality,
that's where everything comes together
in our bodies. So as someone who has a physical disability,
um
that can be a bit of a disconnect because we
become very skilled at disconnecting from our body at times
because of physical pain or just because of wanting to push it away.
So the more we're able to safely get in touch with this concept of sexual self esteem,
the better
we're going to be
with intimacy
with self esteem
and just having a positive impact overall on our sexuality. So
we have to kind of set the stage with that.
Um Now, for people with disabilities, negative attitudes about disability, a
lack of opportunity, you know, um those thoughts of like,
how do I have someone not think that they're gonna be my caregiver,
those maybe even social
iso isolation, you mentioned that,
you know, granted with COVID.
But even before COVID,
a lot of people have isolation going on which leads to loneliness,
which leads to low sexual self esteem.
So ultimately,
there's a strong correlation between our ability to improve
our sexual self esteem by having these types of talks
and having better life satisfaction
overall.
So I don't have to sell you on the idea of this being an important conversation.
I know that you already believe it.
But for those who are in the chat,
maybe thinking like why are we talking about this or why do I need to
go inward?
That that could be a reason.
So
I'm gonna ask you some questions, Nathan.
Yes. So we
as you know, as a coach,
we play tapes
in our head, we've got some negative self talk going on.
We've got those labels that are slapped on us.
These things are shaped by society, culture, family
friends
ourselves, right?
So when you think about your sexual self esteem,
what messages if you're gonna really and again, it requires going into the body,
right?
So just preface
you're
going
in, I already knew this was happening. So we're good to go.
We're going in what messages play
that are in the back of your head.
Um
Yeah, so
first off, relate a lot to Ben
for sure.
And that type of message
was really early on.
Um
but it's
um
again, I've ta I talked about this last week too and it's a reality.
The idea of being the best friend,
the almost like the little brother
and no dude wants to be the little brother.
Let's be for real.
Uh
But that's what the repeated
message was
at the time when all my other friends were dating
and everything.
I was like, huh,
how do I, how do I break through this?
And then
I'll never forget this. And the funny thing is
my dad was doing
like what he thought was good
because he was a teacher at my school.
And so
he got some girl who was a senior
to come sit with me at lunch
and like, I don't know what he thought
was it gonna happen?
But it was like,
uh this is weird like
this
is
awkward.
Uh
But so I don't uh
I'll never forget that the rest of my life like I can go right back there.
Um
And
also like
the
having the birds and the bees talk, right?
Like I remember having that actual talk but then in reality
as I was going through life when I was just by myself. I was like,
ok, that's cool. But I don't see how this applies to what I'm actually seeing happen.
And,
uh, again, my friend, I'm not my friends, my parents don't really
get what's happening and I don't know how to explain it
in a way where they can't, I don't think they can because it's not their experience.
Um,
so,
I mean, it's just like,
it's always the idea of
OK, how is this gonna happen?
And then
I got, I think I got where
I started
focusing on other things and put all this
to the, the back burner
and being like, OK, I'm going to be successful in my career.
I'm gonna be really good at what I fucking do.
Yeah. And so let's get clear, let's take it a step further
and say, OK,
so you mentioned the fear of being everybody's
like fun little brother and like friend,
right?
And for those who, who missed it last week, I had mentioned, you know,
even myself being the mayor of friend, like, you know, so I feel you on that
and then with what you said your dad was doing where it was, you know,
he's gonna get this girl to sit with you.
Tell me the message that plays when you go immediately back to that time.
Yeah, like
uh I think just having you repeat that it was
nobody is gonna sit with me because of me.
Yeah.
Right. Somebody has to step in
and get someone somehow
to,
and honestly, here's what I was also thinking that
I was like, I don't even like this. I don't even like you.
Right.
So then you're like,
in the space with someone that you maybe wouldn't have even chosen to sit with.
Right.
So, the
whole thing. Right.
Right. Right. And, and there's a lot of like,
people who are doing what they think is best for us, right?
And they're doing the best that they can,
but maybe it's missing the mark. And because of that,
um there's some, some labels of,
you know,
not good enough or friend zone
or whatever for that.
And then what's interesting too is instead of focusing your attention on it,
you said I'm gonna be damn good about this area in my life, right?
And that
I did the opposite where
now I wasn't working on my self esteem.
It as my career, like, and who I was as like adult Michelle.
I instead was looking at like,
how am I gonna get the guy? Right. And how am I gonna improve sexual self esteem?
So I became damn good at that
and the ability to
kind of teach
other people how to then do that in their own life.
So it's important what I'm kind of helping Nathan
through right here and he's bringing himself through.
It's that idea of where am I at currently with my sexual self esteem.
Now let me ask you that little brother energy. Do you feel like you're still in that?
Yeah, I would say I'd be at a one, a 1 to 2 and
currently.
Yeah.
Mhm.
100%. Do you hear about friends?
So
and would we ever know this about Nathan? Probably not, right.
That just goes to show you it doesn't
matter how confident this person is coming across,
he's saying no, I'm like a one
over here when it comes to sexual self esteem. So let me ask you this. Now,
when you think about someone who has high sexual self esteem,
what does that look like? Like what does a 10 look like if you're the one
who
tell me about 10?
Oh, yeah.
So, ok, what do I see?
Yeah. Um
I this is weird but this is what I see and I don't know why this is coming up, right?
But it's what's coming up. So
because it has nothing actually to do with, with sex or anything.
But when I imagine that the person that I see is like Matthew mcconaughey,
that's who I see.
Ok,
so like Matthew mcconaughey
is a 10 when it comes to sexual self esteem,
what are the qualities about him that really are like this is why?
Yeah.
Uh So
he just seems really sure of himself.
Uh which is funny, right? Because
it's just this area and we've talked about this,
I'm, I'm sure of myself but not in this area.
So I know what that's like.
Um,
so sure of himself.
Uh,
doesn't
I get the sense that he doesn't care
what other people say about him?
He just says whatever,
it's true to him. So
he speaks authentically, he shows up. Yeah.
Yeah.
Um,
and I think that's probably the biggest part of
that for me is
how do I say that
in a, uh,
when it comes to relationships?
Right.
Right. In a romantic way.
Right.
And I'm seeing in the chat box that people are meeting you where you are at,
they're doing the reflection for themselves.
And they're saying I'm, I feel like I'm a one I see. Same,
you know, why is John going to Vegas? That's what I want to know.
Oh, now I got, uh, well, John was
asking about sex surrogacy, which is truly a whole other topic.
Um,
and, and it also depends legally on where you are at.
So that is something to Google and we can certainly have that discussion.
But for now, um,
and now that I know that's on your radar, I'm,
I'm happy to talk about it at another time too.
I think that that's important.
Um, Charles is saying, or Ben is saying, I feel like I'm out of one.
Um,
and Charles is saying, I'm a 10 with other people's disabilities.
I'm a, oh, with other people with disabilities? Oh, Charles, I love this.
And then Charles says I'm a three with able bodied people.
So,
so interesting. Bill says I'm a seven
and Bill, is that with sexual self esteem or is that self esteem?
And I would even add that, that,
you know, interesting division there.
How do you feel with other people with disabilities?
How do you feel with people who have
no physical disability?
Because that's something to consider too.
Now, getting back to Nathan, you didn't get out of it that easy. Nathan.
Which I know you're not trying to get out of it. You're not.
Um,
so
with that,
what does a one look like?
Huh?
You,
so, one
looks like, not even making it a priority.
So, it's not even on your radar, like,
yeah, not making it a priority. Yeah.
Yeah,
it looks like, um,
so when I think about it, I think, uh,
and I think it's something that we're very good at and that's overcompensating.
Right. So,
I think it's just overcompensating in other areas and just
the one is
not even worrying about that.
Mhm.
So, not making it a priority
and pretending like it doesn't matter.
So, when we pretend that things don't matter,
what does that do for us?
Yeah.
Ah,
yeah.
So level of importance for you. It's probably, uh, what? On 1 to 10.
Yeah.
It's, it's the other end of the spectrum, right?
But by saying these things don't matter,
it keeps us from getting hurt.
Right. It keeps us safe
and of course we want safety, you know,
but
we have to choose our hard, right? So either we're safe and we're
alone because we're not even making relationships,
romantic relationships a priority
or
we are putting ourselves out there but potentially getting our hearts broken.
Right?
So let me ask you now,
if, are you making this a priority today? Are you choosing to
from here on out?
Yeah,
It sounds like it in this discussion.
So then you're no longer a one. Where are you,
if I'm OK, that's a difficult question.
So if I'm not a one, I mean, we're, we're aiming towards a 10.
But if I'm preaching what I like, if I'm doing what I preach,
we're trying to get to a two or a three.
Yeah.
So where are you? Are you maybe a two or three?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the goal of changing today would be to be at a 334.
And the goal is that because we're looking at realistic
shifts, right?
And it's like right now, I'm like, OK, now I'm managing even like the pandemic,
right?
I'm like,
OK, so
how do we do this? What does this look like in this space when I don't even have
a lot of the
skills?
Like, because it,
that's really what it requires too and this is for everybody like it requires
ring it out.
So that's a reality of making sure you're not saying,
ok, I'm gonna be a 10. Well, you don't have the skills to be a 10.
Mm.
I felt that I felt that Nathan because I think that that is like
sometimes a little white lie that we tell ourselves
because I believe you have the skills to be a 10.
But you've told yourself
that
you don't because it's this arena here.
But if we're looking at self esteem, are you not Matthew mcconaughey
right now?
Oh, yeah.
Right.
So you are showing up authentically for friendships and, and connection,
you are confident and you're not caring about what other people think.
And I know that because I, at
times I'm over here caring about what other people think and you're like,
don't do that.
I mean,
you even kind of have the accent, you know, Matthew mcconaughey.
So
I'm just saying,
but that is where, and I think that it's so,
it's so great that you said that. And even in the chat box,
you know, Bill is saying the key is to be a friend for me.
That's what we're being in romantic relationships too.
That's ultimately what we're being now.
It's a, it's a lens though
because
where does sexy fit into that.
Yeah.
Right.
I, and that's, I mean, outside of the, the coaching lens that,
that's often something that I think about too.
And it's like,
um,
I guess it's still in the coaching lens a little so,
like, I think the friend zone idea,
like, I think that's also just a made up idea. Like I would much rather be
your friend before. I just said
um,
hey, let's get it on like that's just like my
personality. But I also see points where that can also be like a white lie too.
Mm.
Mhm.
So tell me about that. Why,
so
that to me
is, am I clear with the intentions that I have with the person?
Right.
And
in getting clear on those things, we have to first
get clear on
what do you want
in a relationship? Now, if you're at a one,
you're not even acknowledging the fact that you can have a relationship.
So
if you've recently been a one or you're currently at a one,
we, we really have to start
at looking at how do we shift to a two
where we're acknowledging that this could even be a possibility.
Yeah.
And so for me, like,
I think that looks like an actual affirmation.
Honestly, I think that's where that starts
is
saying something to the effect of
I'm, I'm worthy of
a romantic relationship.
Mhm.
You're gonna make my job really hard when it's my turn. I'm just saying
you're welcome.
Yeah. Yeah.
But
I think that's it though. I think that's the one step that
we start to get to that three and that 4
to 2.
Yeah.
It's better here than one. But one's ok if you're out of one.
And if, if you're just not ready,
that's a choice. But
if we could even all, just kind of shift into what a two feels like what's,
what feels better about two than one.
I mean, for me it's, you're closer to the 10,
you're almost there.
Yeah,
you only got eight more to go
and look how fast we got to two.
Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that for a second because I think that's important too.
Like I think that there's a lie that
this all takes tremendous amounts of time
and none of this actually takes
a lot of time.
It's really about
what choice are you willing to make
in any given moment
uh regardless of what area we're talking about.
Um So
I think if you're, if that's something that you're telling yourself,
I think acknowledge where you're at,
right? But it doesn't have to take forever.
It doesn't have to take forever.
That's a lie too.
And then that becomes an overwhelming of like, well, I don't even wanna start.
It's, it's gonna be a lot of hard work again. Choose your hard
Yeah.
You know, and, and you, you're making this conversation for,
for me easy because I know that you are ready to receive this.
You know, you went in with,
don't even tell me your questions, Michelle like I'm here, I'm present and I'm,
I'm open to possibility
and I think that if you can be open to possibility
I mean,
that brings us back to our first conversation
that we had together on your podcast of,
you know, are you open to the idea
that this can be something that you have? Um
you know, that that's something to look at.
So
um
I see that
John saying we're trying to quantify this
topic when we're looking at something that is
um not visible.
Like I can't say like here is your
anxiety,
Here is your depression. Here is your self esteem
when we're able to talk about it in terms of um
physicality
by putting it on a scale. That's how you can get an idea
of how you can shift it.
And I think that being open to that possibility
speaks to your openness of shifting other energy as well.
So
and I think it's important to like
with the, with the scale
like you, you can't,
I can just tell you what I'm feeling, right?
And
there's only we can only quantify things in a certain way and
we have to have something that we can measure that says,
oh yeah, I did improve here. So I think it's important because
if you don't know
like you have to have something to measure it against.
So now if I show up every day and I say my affirmation,
I know that
hey, I improved and I said with integrity, what I was gonna do, I did it.
Yeah.
Yeah. And John, they are feelings based and I think that
sometimes
that almost puts them in the level of like a magical realm
and we certainly don't want to take away that magic of what
those things can be.
But I think too,
sometimes we can allow feelings in general
to feel like fact
and if you're feeling like you're out of one,
but then we talk it out and you're not actually one
that improves the way that you're gonna show up for these conversations and,
and in relationships with other people.
So it's, it's great that you're open to that.
Um Because that being open and being cracked open, that's the way we receive.
And I'll tell you so, one of the greatest things that I, I ever did do in this area
um
was
when it was like, um
we had to draw our body,
draw a picture of our body as we saw it
and talk about all the things that we didn't like
about our body.
And let's be for real when you have a physical disability, it's really easy.
I mean, as a human, it's really easy to point out all the imperfections.
But when you have stuff that's
definitely not what you see on TV. It's really easy.
But when I did that and then, so you drew it out
and then you talked about all the things you didn't like.
But then what they made you do is
we sat with our group
and we said all the things we didn't like,
I love my body for this reason
and it was for all the reasons why we, we didn't like
our body to begin with and it was a point of acceptance and I think
that's what all this stuff is.
It starts with accepting where you're at and knowing where you wanna go.
Mhm.
So, with that, you know, we said we were gonna
kinda walk through that type of a shift with sexual self esteem.
Did you want to have the tables turn?
Yeah, I,
I think or, or what
or you know,
I mean,
I would much rather hear, wanna hear what other people would like to talk about.
I'm cool if we don't do that at this time because I think this is a good,
we're in a good spot and if we continue this conversation, I think it's important. So
I don't think that we necessarily need to switch.
Ok,
cool.
Um Sean is saying for some people living with disabilities,
sex can help take away their physical pain
100%. Yeah.
From my experience that can be a little addictive. Yeah. The lack of pain.
Sign me up, right?
So it leaves you wanting more and then on
top of everything you're talking about that makes it even
more difficult. So,
so the so talking about it makes it difficult. I'm a little unclear on that. Wait.
Yeah. Talking about the pain
or what are we talking about
on top of that. Everything you're talking about that
makes it more difficult.
So yeah, some clarity there.
Um
And then I, I do wanna hop back up up here too
and say
what Ben was sharing here.
My birthday active, I can hit on a girl and say
everything in the world I wanna say,
but I feel like she's looking at my chair and thinking,
how am I going to have sex with him?
Oh yeah, that,
that is something
as someone who has used a chair, used a chair for a
good portion of my life.
You know, I think those of us who have
can relate to getting people asking us that question, right?
Of like, can you even have sex?
And that was recently covered by um
the wheelchair Rapunzel on
Instagram. She did a video about that
and how many times people have asked her? Like, can you
and I think that
if you aren't,
if, if you don't even know that could be a really big thing too,
you know, and, and I think that speaks to having people in your life that show you
what is possible.
Having other people who have disabilities
who have even maybe your specific disability
talking about what's possible physically can be extremely helpful.
That's a good. Uh So I don't know if you saw what Charles put too.
I think that's a really good
uh comment Charles, I don't know what that would look like. Um But I think that, yeah,
that's definitely something that's needed,
uh,
in
schools, uh, to make it ok. Right. Because I'm sure,
I'm sure there's kids that
have go to sex ed and I bet you some of their parents even pull them out
just because they have a disability and they don't think that they should learn.
Yeah.
That's a, that's a really big thing where, I mean,
people with disabilities are just not
being invited to that conversation,
whether it's because parents are protecting them or
there's this false belief that people with disabilities don't have sex.
And there's a lot of ablest beliefs about that and those things become
internalized too, I think, and it can be hard for us to even grapple with those
that internalized ableism that we could even have.
So, yeah, I, I feel you on that Charles for sure. And, and I think that
while we may not be able to go back and fix the fact that maybe we didn't
have this conversation that makes it that much
more important for us to talk about it now
and
to have these types of discussions with people who
are, are open to sharing where they're at.
So I love the chat box and everyone who's shared
just their perspective and where they're at.
So that actually makes me think of a question for you though,
from a different lens. And we
thought that
so
you have daughters who also have disabilities. So when you think about this from a, a
parent lens.
What do you think is important for, um,
your kids to know?
I mean, they're not
close to even having these discussions yet. But what do you think about as a parent?
Yeah. And, and I think being a parent now
it really shows me that the sex talk is just kind of difficult to have with your child
outside of the scope of disability.
So, parents are in a position where it's, it's just difficult to have.
It's hard to see your child as a sexual being.
You know,
it's even harder for people who have Children with
disabilities to see them as a sexual being because of
the care that has potentially gone on
the, you know, sometimes lack of boundaries that are there
what society has told them.
So
it's,
it's an interesting dynamic now for me to be a
sexologist and acknowledge that this is a difficult discussion,
I think, speaks to the fact that like I'm,
I've been taught how to have this discussion and it feels weird,
you know,
but I think age appropriate wise,
it would always start with just like consent and understanding what it is.
And then also as
you know,
as um developmentally appropriate,
the fact that pleasure is involved and it's a part of it.
And as we talked about in the chat box, pleasure can be a really big
painter producer
here. So that's a benefit.
You know,
we're all getting hit out with the dopamine.
Right. Right.
Let's see.
Yeah.
So Charles is saying, um, I had to have the sex talk with my wife who has CP,
the first time we had sex.
Yeah. She didn't know anything. And
that's something that I, I want people to know and I,
I want to be able to answer those questions for people, even people who,
like you said,
she's 29 and didn't know like there are
adults that we're having these conversations with.
Because if we're not told, how can we, how can we know
that, that, how can we be expected to know? Just because we're a certain age? Yeah.
Yeah. And then maybe we're getting that information from friends
or
the wrong information. So,
you know, always know your source as well.
That's another researcher, pro tip know your source, you know.
Well, yeah. So one of the,
one of the things I think about is like, um, the whole idea about the wheelchair.
Like, I think that a lot of times when,
when people ask that question and I've seen
it even with other people with disabilities,
um, just because they weren't taught,
they made the assumption that this guy was in a wheelchair
and he couldn't feel
his legs. Like, and we feel
everything for the most part, we're not paralyzed.
And I had to tell them in that moment I was like, ok,
we got to do a little educating here.
Please don't try and do that with him because he didn't have,
he wasn't able to speak up for himself in that moment
because he hadn't been taught to use his voice.
And I'm like, you have to realize he can feel all that.
So
would you like to be dragged that way?
Uh No.
Um
So it's really like, again, I think that kind of dips into that self esteem.
A little bit of
we have to be able to use our voice at whatever capacity we can
to say what's going on for us, even if it's something that feels scary to say,
uh you have to be able to do that to
uh
like
have a better,
I don't even know a better quality of life
as
well.
Yeah, better, better quality of life, better self perception.
Um Speaking your truth is such a big part of that, right?
And
if you don't know what feels good,
you could at least maybe know what does not feel good
and being able to communicate that is such an important part
of,
of that.
And here's so that made me think of
if you're like at a one where I'm at. Well, now, what do we say? I'm at a two,
a
two.
You
tell
me, you tell
me
so,
but
I think
one of the important parts is when you find that partner or the potential partner
is to be open and honest with them,
like
instead of thinking that they're gonna make the assumption
about
what you don't know. Or like, if you're not experienced, guess what?
It's not the facts, not changing.
It just is the truth. If you don't have a lot of experience, you don't.
And
I think when you
say that,
um,
it helps
the other person know where you're at
and it helps create an experience where
you're in it together
100%.
And the more that
we,
if as the person with maybe a lack of experience,
if we're looking at that
through a negative lens where it's like, uh
you know, you're, you're going to present this lack of experience in that way.
Whereas if we can shift into the idea that a laugh, a lack of experience
does not mean that things are gonna be bad if anything, if,
if we can tap that into the idea of play
and let's figure it out and have fun,
I mean,
who doesn't want to play?
So,
and, and really when you're with someone new,
there's a level of play, even if both of you have experience because you're learning
what the other likes and everybody's not the same.
So if you can tap into that feeling
and you know that you want to have fun and you're there for fun,
that's gonna be a whole different shift
as well. Who,
man,
I don't know if I don't actually know what I expected from today's
conversation. To be honest, I think it's been a, been a good one
and
I'm loving
everybody's um comments, the conversation,
you guys are adding a lot to the conversation.
Um Let me throw this up
because we got uh
we're coming to the end of our
time here today
and um
just wanna throw up if you guys have any questions
and you think about it before our time next week.
Um Feel free to email them here.
You can also message the page whatever works best for you.
But if you send it to that email, I get them
uh
directly to the email because next week
we're doing a Q and A
and we're bringing another person, as I said, in the one o'clock hour,
we're bringing another person
um to join the conversation to add
um their perspective to everything that we've talked about and
next week is all about answering your questions
um and supporting you and whatever that looks like.
So
um
what's your big takeaway from
where we've ended up today?
Michelle?
Mm
I think that a,
a takeaway to it and it, and it ties in with this Q and A.
Um the best way for questions to get answered is for them to be clear and, and shared.
Um so that we could really get a clear answer on what it is that we're looking for.
You know, if you're looking like John made a great point here, sex is one thing,
relationship is another if you're just looking for sex.
That's one thing,
you know,
if you're looking for more than that,
there's going to be deeper things that we kind of need to address here.
But either way sexual self esteem affects how we show up to all of these,
these different avenues.
So I think it's important for us to get super clear
like
what, what is your end goal
with improving sexual self esteem
and,
and why,
and then
what is it that you're really wanting in
a relationship?
You know?
So,
so that's something to consider. Ben says this has helped me so much.
The funny part is I can't talk to my parents about this
this year, but I thought about
well killing a counselor.
I'm thinking that might be a typo Ben but, you know, I'm not sure,
but the counselor doesn't understand unless they're in
a wheelchair or they have a disability.
So that's, this is great.
Yeah, I think it, there's a unique perspective that
we can all share together
when the person
can appreciate the lens through which you're, you're having your questions asked.
Um So, so that's something to consider as well.
Um
Yeah, and,
and John. Yeah, you gotta be real with yourself.
Like if you're as John was saying in the chat box, if it's just to get laid,
then you also have to consider the fact that
you know, that is gonna come across too
and, and I would even push you a little bit further
to see if you're thinking you just want to get laid because you're not worthy of,
of love.
Can you have both?
Do you feel worthy of that?
These are all reflection questions to start asking ourselves.
Um
And Sean said if I ever do get a counselor,
I would like one to be in a wheelchair so they can understand my perspective better.
Yeah,
I, I get that.
I get it.
Yeah,
we all want to be seen, right?
And
that gives us a level of, of feeling seen I believe.
Um
um So
man, yeah, there, there's some powerful stuff here
and I think you're right. I think it depends on where we're at, what we actually want.
And
that's such a,
such a powerful question to be like,
is that really true?
And I think that goes back to having somebody else to bounce the conversation off
of because we're really good at lying to ourselves
because guess what? We just want to survive.
That's the only thing our brain wants to do.
And so it's not gonna go to the difficult places.
It's gonna say, oh let's stay in our little bubble.
Yeah,
Ben said getting a counselor not killing a counselor.
Thank you for the clarification. Ben,
yeah, and, and I can appreciate that. So,
you know,
with all that was shared today,
I also wanna say, you know, as much as we do lie to ourselves,
we we should also be kind to ourselves.
Like thanks Brain for, for lying for my survival.
You know, thanks, thanks for doing this, for keep to keep me safe. But
we can, you know,
I can maybe take the reins now and we're gonna kind of drive in this direction here.
So
I think it's,
you know, without judgment that we can see where we're at in order to move forward. So
please, if you've got any questions, if this spark to anything,
and you also be kind to yourself.
If this dug up some stuff and you're feeling all the feels, drink a lot of water,
talk it out with a friend, connect with someone, continue the discussion,
do some journaling.
Um And,
and be real with yourself and say like, do I do,
I want to dig into this a little bit further for myself.
Would that be helpful?
That's, that's where it's at?
Well,
I would acknowledge you for uh taking the
time leading me and everybody through the exercise.
I hope you guys got a lot out of asking yourself the questions.
Um And remember that this is gonna be on replay.
So if you didn't get something the first time, feel free to go back and watch it again,
um Because it's there to support you.
Uh And we will, we don't have a time
in concrete yet for next week,
uh because we're working with the other person to get that scheduled out.
Uh But
as soon as uh we do have something I will post
in here when we have our final talk and remember,
you can ask
um any questions and we will be getting to you next week. Q and A.
So the things that you asked, they're super important for next week's talk.
Yeah, you have a voice, you know,
and if you're feeling like you've got too many questions, get,
get some of them out for yourself because they're important.
They're there for a reason.
Yeah,
100%. And we're, we're here for all the questions
and if we don't know the answer, we're gonna be straight up and say, hey, I don't know.
I haven't thought about this before, so I'm gonna have to do some reflection too.
Uh with that. Remember risers from sun up to sundown? We rise.
Thanks everyone.