CP sunrise. What is going on everybody?
It's Nathan. Doctor Fon
and Jamie and we have another guest coming here a little bit later.
But man, we're already at week three for our talk
sex. Let's talk about it from CP sunrise.
And you guys know this week we're all about the Q and A,
everything we've been talking about, we've been talking about self esteem,
sexual self esteem.
Last week, you guys watched me walk through a process.
Boy, howdy. I'm glad we're not doing that this week.
I think I can only take it one week at a time, right? Um
But we want to answer your questions because
we've got professionals here.
We've got people that are living with cerebral palsy. So, you know,
we know what it's like
and um
talking about things, man, it's super important
because the more we talk about it, the more normal it becomes
and all this stuff is a normal part of life, regardless of disability or not.
And with that, I will pass it on to my co-host.
So
Michelle and then Jamie, uh what are you thinking tonight as we enter? Part three?
Well, I'm just thinking that you know, you, you mentioned,
you're glad you're not going through that process again.
But I think that speaks to the fact that
this is often an uncomfortable topic, you know.
So we all need to be aware of our own stuff. Bubbling up to the surface.
Whenever we're talking about
self esteem, we're talking about sexual self esteem,
especially if those things are triggers for you,
you know.
So I just wanna preface it with that.
Recognize what comes up if anything comes up, be kind to yourself. And
you know, we're all in this together.
This is a very human experience, disability or not disability. Um
It's, it's a human experience and I think
we deserve to talk about it in our community here
and it's good that we're talking about it because
people with disabilities are sexual beings too
because we are human after all.
So that comes up for me and, and it is hard, hard work,
but we're choosing our hard work, right?
It's hard to not talk about it and then it's hard to talk about it.
So I appreciate everyone who is here to listen in, to ask questions and um
to to choose, choose the path of um looking at these things a little bit.
So with that, I'll pass it off.
OK. Hi everyone.
Um as you know,
I'm the founder of several palsy sunrise and I just want to say a huge thank you
to Nathan and doctor Feyen
because uh one of the toughest things about managing
an active online group is finding new resources,
new people and new content.
And we couldn't be more pleased with the response that we've gotten
and just the overall quality of the content that you
guys have been able to contribute in the series.
So, thank you very much for that.
And uh
CP sunrise is a little over a year old and one of the most commonly asked questions,
uh no matter what the day of week or time of day is questions concerning love,
relationship, body image and sex.
Um So I think we're really in the right place.
And as you know, we cater specifically to adults with several palsy aging in range
eight,
ranging in age from 18 to 73.
So, uh in that kind of group of people,
there's everything from people who have been married, divorced, dating
uh to people who, you know, have had somewhat of an AEX life and, and have
opted not to date. And
it really is, you know, quite a number line.
So I think one of the things that really came into focus for me as
I watched the two of you in the first two parts was that we have
active contributors in the group who are all over that number line.
Um
So it's pretty interesting to see
uh we have just under 800 members and I
think that's a really good sampling for our particular
I guess you'd say
uh, disability group.
Um,
but I think that
our group probably mirrors a lot of the other adult disability groups out there,
whether it's CP or muscular dystrophy or MS or anything like that.
So,
um I'm excited to get started tonight and see what everybody has to say.
Yeah. Awesome. Well,
thanks so much, Jamie because without you and your idea, right.
This wouldn't even be existing. So
all of us
owe Jamie some gratitude there for sure.
It's
been a
year already, but it had
Yeah. Yeah. Uh
I just wanna do a,
a quick shout out to everybody who's been leaving uh comments right now.
So we got Anna Michael Jill Kimberly,
Mary Lou.
Yeah.
Oh Nice. Kimberly making a children's book. That's amazing.
Um
So I'll get it started with the question
and
so I've got
spastic
diplegia, cerebral palsy,
right? So I'm tight all the time
and one of the things that I worry about when it comes to
sex is like
uh
am I gonna pop my hip out of place?
Uh
And so
I know from our conversations, you did a whole your whole dissertation about this,
about positioning. So,
um if there's somebody out there like me because I'm sure there's
plenty of people in the group with the same type as me.
Um what can I look for? How can I better position? So I'm not, I eliminate that fear
and I enjoy the experience.
Right. Right. I,
I love that we're diving right in. That's totally my style.
And
I think that
it's so important for us to recognize what are our fears.
So if you are just kind of catching our talks for the first time,
a little bit about me is that I don't have cerebral palsy,
but I do have osteogenesis imperfecta, which is a brittle bone disease.
And
um because of that, I
have had like around 38 ish fractures. I was in a wheelchair
for a significant portion of my life using other mobility devices too. And so
there's um
there are a lot of fears just of the physicality part.
So I can completely appreciate where you're at with that.
Um And
my whole reason,
well, one of one of my main reasons for diving into just clinical sexology in general
was for myself,
my own like questions and just wanting to be able
to support other people and having those questions answered.
So
like you said, I did do my dissertation
on positioning.
It was um sex and disability,
the art of creative positioning because oftentimes we are having to be creative.
So
with um this fear of possibly popping out your hip,
some of the first questions that I would
ask is like, ok,
sometimes our fears are
are there and they have like really big nuggets of
like truth attached to them which make them feel like
absolutely real.
But then other times as we kind of sit with the fear we can recognize that. Maybe
there are other possibilities of why that's there.
So, and this is for everyone. So if there is a fear of,
you know, getting hurt for me, it was like, well,
I get hurt like just from like a hug here, like I'm popping ribs.
So
like,
you know,
so this is a reality. Um You know,
so with you Nathan, have you, has your hip ever popped out of place? Just in general?
Luckily? No,
no. Ok.
Now, that doesn't mean this is an unrealistic fear.
It's right there,
right?
So it's a concern for a reason
and I think we all have these concerns for, for reasons, but
we can sit there and, and Ds
the fear a little bit by saying,
well, it hasn't popped out.
So, you know,
it's good that it's on my radar. Fear is a protective mechanism. But
is this fear
enough to make me never try?
You know,
and at different points in your life for everyone,
fear can be enough to make you never even want to try.
So
just to kind of get into the positioning part
we would be looking at, ok. It would be si similar for anyone who has maybe had a hip um
replacement or anything like that where the ligaments are lax,
there's possibility of this popping out and we certainly don't want that to happen.
Although it makes for a great story to talk about later. Does it not?
Yeah, I would.
So I don't know about great story but you know,
so you would wanna be looking at sideline positions where the hip in question
would be the one that is placed on
the bed or the floor or wherever it is that you're planning to have this escapade.
So you want that hip to be supported, side lying
that takes away the possibility of
gravity like if you were to be on your back, gravity kind of working against you
and it puts the support on that side.
Um
And I would say that for people who deal with spasticity,
maybe more on one side versus another, you wanna free up the side
that is more um more free to be used for however you wanna use it.
So that would be one of my suggestions just for the actual how to
um
but there's probably more to be discussed with just the fear, you know,
because I think that can really kind of get more in our way at times
than the actual um physicality.
Yeah, I would agree with that 100% and let me uh Andy is joining us.
So let me bring him up cause I know he'll have stuff to add.
Hi, everyone. Hello, Andy.
Long day at work. I'm sorry.
And I was trying to get off the call and I was like, oh my boss is not gonna like this. Um
But I'm here and I love that. I
rolled in right when we were talking about spastic sex, I was like, this is perfect.
Yes. Perfect timing. Really? Perfect. Yes.
Wow. Awesome.
Yeah. So
this is the first time that the CP sunrise community is even getting to know you Andy.
So if you want to take a minute and introduce
yourself and then we'll dive right back into the conversation.
I would love that. Hi, guys. It's so good to be here as you can see by my background.
I'm a very colorful, interesting dynamic cookie person. I
identify as someone with spastic CP mostly in my legs.
I'm LGBT Q
and I'm also a diversity and inclusion subject matter expert.
Um So I really talk about all things
uh related to LGBT Q ness disability sex relationship
just being fabulous on on wheels and, you know, using your
disability as an asset instead of a hindrance.
Um Disability is sexy and it's interesting
and different and um
people just need to get over it and uh accept
it as part of a way of life and um I'm happy to be here.
Yeah, thanks so much for joining Andy.
Of course,
it's CP month. I had to, I was like, you're doing what
without me? No,
I was just like
this guy,
this guy. All right.
And yeah, so Andy, we had, we have members who were specifically asking about
um the experience of being in the LGBT Q community.
So we're so happy that you're here to,
um, provide your perspective when it comes to that.
Uh,
yeah, absolutely. Having a disability is sexy. It absolutely is. We talk about that
every week?
You sure do.
I have to brag about your feet for a minute because they are very attractive.
Well,
I just shaking his head.
Nathan
knew what he was getting into so he can't like,
raise an eyebrow to be dated because you knew.
Ok,
so what does, what does that have to do with today's conversation?
That's all I wanna know.
Ok, because most people
with CP or wheelchairs, you know, they have some, uh,
some hesitation when it comes to the lower extremities.
I myself never wear shorts because
I have one leg that's shorter than the other.
And one of the things that drew me to you right away
made me like you, but made me hate you a little bit too
was I saw your feet and I was like,
how dare he have nice feet because mine look like talons, right?
They're like little
raven claws because
you know, of my spasticity.
So it was one of the things that I was like, how dare Nathan have such attractive feet.
So that's the first thing I saw of you. And
yeah, and we've been friends ever since. But, um, yeah,
so that's,
that's why I brought it up.
Well, and I, I actually love that now just because it,
it brings up a great point of
what other people find attractive
is so different and unique
to
each person.
Um,
and
I think that's,
let's go there for a second. So,
um, Michelle,
you and I have talked about this and probably at some point I've talked to
Andy and Jamie about this a little bit,
but I'm curious and I'd love to hear from anybody that's watching with us live.
What,
when you think of
attraction and something that's attractive,
what's a attractive quality that you find in another human being or your partner?
Hm.
I love that question.
When it was posed in our previous talks, Nathan. It was like,
it was just so eye opening for me.
Um
and,
and even just with Andy, what Andy just shared, it was like disability is sexy,
but also I have talents and I don't wear shorts, you know, so
we're be we as people, we can be out on one
side of the spectrum of confidence
and then with other things, maybe not so confident.
That's why in these talks, we've talked about the difference between
like self esteem and where you're at today
and sexual self esteem because that can be different
and you know, your confidence as someone in a relationship is like another layer.
So there's a bunch of different layers to us
as human beings. So
I, I think that
if we allow the the label of disability to be the only way that we look at ourselves.
We're really limiting the way someone
could appreciate all of the layers.
I mean, I don't want to brag on myself, but I will
do
it,
you know, I, I have some attractive qualities and so I tend to focus, you know,
anything above the chest.
I'm like, that's mine. Baby. You can't touch that.
I have
guns just for the record. I have guns. So there you go. Guns. Nice chest,
good shoulders. Got the chin. I'm like, I'm there. Right?
And so if you're going to do, if I'm going to shoot for that,
there we go underneath
the waistline. I'm just like,
not everything there is good but
you know, the legs themselves, I'm like, oh God, if I could just, you know, be like
um Mr potato head and switch them out,
I would um because it's very Joe from family guy down there, but
I'm ok with that because the rest of me is this and I'm like, nobody has this. So
I love it.
I love it. And, and I think that
that's for anyone, right?
Like there's always that thing that anyone has regardless of disability.
And so we got to play up our strengths
and I think if we don't even acknowledge that
we can have all of these great qualities,
then how are we going to play them up?
You know,
and confidence for me is so sexy like I don't and I,
and that doesn't really matter what you look like, to me it's confidence,
caring and confidence. See, I forget that we,
I'm like, hey,
Ben,
I'm,
I don't know if you're gay or straight in, but I'm just saying you're cute.
Don't worry about that.
Mom COVID. Y'all. I'm
serious.
I
feel you.
Kindness.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yes. Thanks.
Let's see. We got it, we got it blowing up.
I love, you know what? I love emotional intelligence too. And I don't think
in the disability community, I think
that if, if we can hone in on our emotional intelligence
and like, figure out how we can get that to work for the other people in the
our communities.
Um Because let me tell you, gay men are some of the shallowest folk I have ever met.
Love you guys. But, oh my God,
get over yourselves. We don't all look like Greek Gods and that's ok.
Yeah.
So, Amy wants to know, how do you find your strengths?
Anybody got anything they'd like to add on that?
Yeah.
I think
practice, right? Like you have to get out there.
You can't,
you can't know what your strengths are if you don't make the effort to go out on a date.
Um So,
you know,
getting out there is really how you find your
strengths and you're gonna fail and it's ok.
Um,
because you won't, you know, you won't get anywhere if you don't get off the bench.
So.
Mm. Mhm. I think that's huge. And as far as your strengths go, like maybe
if you're talking like physically, right?
Like Andy did such a fantastic job of, of saying like,
these are things that I know to be true about myself,
but you may not always have been in that, that space.
I know for myself,
I feel that way about certain qualities that I
have and certain physical attributes that I have,
but I did not
always feel that way.
So the process of finding that is to really
allow yourself to get vulnerable and, and be real with yourself.
And if you can't identify even one physical thing about yourself that you like,
it can be helpful to think about. OK, think about people that do care about you.
What have they said? What evidence, what other evidence do I have?
Uh we kind of got to look at it as a little researcher, right? To make that shift.
And the thing is, and I, I truly
do believe this.
If you think you're attractive,
other people are gonna think you're attractive period.
I mean, if you roll around, think I'm the shit. Oh, can we say that on here?
Because I just
oops,
that's the thing
and
fake it till you make it because really if any of you want to go stop me on Facebook,
I really
posted
some scary like or Instagram. I recently posted like
three before photos in and now and I did that because
I was like, this is how I used to think of myself and this is how I look now
and that really came.
Yeah, it was a little bit of highlight but it was more of like,
thinking I'm attractive thinking that,
you know, other people should think I'm attractive.
So that mindset of attractiveness just kept playing over and over in my head.
And it's not until I meet people like Nathan Todd who have better feet than I do that.
I question that, that I'm like, am I really that attractive?
But I let it go and move on.
But
you have to.
Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. Like I
ever cross my as a feature that would never cross my mind.
But now, you know,
now, you know, you know, you need
to wear
sandals all the time.
Oh, yeah. Well, now I knew that from a long time ago and
you knew.
Yeah. Yeah.
But
one of the things too, like,
it is really work with what you got. And
I think
like,
one thing that we're all very adept
at is knowing the conversation around expectations.
Right.
And so,
you know,
expectations are extremely low for the most part for us.
And what I say is that's a beautiful thing.
I say that's a beautiful thing because hey, guess what,
if everybody already thinks that I'm gonna fail,
it gives me the freedom to go trash it that I wanna do.
And,
like,
if the bar is on the ground,
there's nothing stopping you from going as high as you want.
Ok. Wow. My mind is blown right now because I wasn't even thinking, like
I was actually thinking the reverse. Nathan. That's interesting.
Yes. Yes. And that's how I thought too. Andy. So when I heard his interview,
um, where he shared that and then even took it a step further and said,
what if there is no bar, you know, and I was like,
because I didn't, I don't
automatically think that way
and that's why we do have to,
there's so much to be said for having these conversations
and connecting with other people because you cannot
do all of the work on yourself alone
using the same tools that weren't getting you anywhere to begin with. Exactly.
I mean, I don't ever think of like, I'm somebody with a significant disability,
right?
But I never ever think of my wheelchair
as something to do with my
ability of self esteem.
Like if I thought about my wheelchair in that way as like a hindrance,
like, oh, I have to, you know, transfer into my wheelchair today,
that's gonna be a problem.
Like I would never get out of bed. Like, right.
Like I, if I thought about my disability first thing,
then I would never get out of bed where my disability really?
I see it and I feel it is when other people react to it
because then I'm like, oh, you, oh, my God, I am in a wheelchair. Wow.
You know, I come to that realization when somebody's like,
oh, you're super attractive. Too bad. You're in a wheelchair.
And I'm like, well, too bad, you're an idiot. But that's
had
that right. I mean,
raise your hand if you've had somebody say, oh, you're super hot.
Too bad, you're fed up.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh God, I wouldn't want to date you anyway.
But thank you for that little comment. Yes. But it still jolts you anyway.
Even if you know
that it's their problem.
Just like when you walk past a shop window or a mirror,
you suddenly remember because I know I kind of forget.
Right.
And then I walk past like a shop window or a mirror and I think, oh gosh,
that's what other people see because it's just,
you're like,
oh, I'm
along
flies out of mind, you know?
Right. Because I, I, you can't think about it on a daily
basis.
Well, you can,
but I think it slows you down in your pursuit of
feeling good and feeling sexy and feeling interesting and different.
And honestly, like,
you know, why can't our bodies
be beautiful?
Like this is the question that I always ask myself, but we're, we're in this body,
make it as beautiful as you want to make it right.
Like that's, that's your individual choice.
Um You know, I couldn't pull off a beard like Nathan does.
But if I wanted to in like three years I could grow that,
you know, I don't know if it would work for me but, you know,
I do know what works now and that's ok.
Um,
but yeah, I think, you know, disability can be beautiful and I think,
you know, the mainstream needs to catch up to that a little bit,
but as long as we, as people with disabilities get it,
I mean, we're all attractive on this call.
I'm like, damn, we're all, we're all working it out.
Um But
yeah, I'm a little jealous of your highlights, Michelle. I'm like, oh
this is a year of not getting my hair done and it just looks like the whole
thing. It's,
but that looks better than mine. I'm going to the salon this weekend being all, hey,
this is what I want I'm taking.
I
am
I
already
did it
like you got
it.
Yes.
So I, I have a question though because you know,
last week when we were having our talk,
there were people sharing in the chat box which I
just love because I want this to be something where
if questions are popping up that we can answer them and we can address them and there
for people sharing like
I my self esteem is like zero or my self esteem,
my sexual self esteem is like one like people were sharing that, right, Nathan.
And so if
Right. Right. Nathan,
right.
So and I think that that is just, it's so relatable for me because then there and,
and if people are in that space and now they're hearing us talk after,
maybe we've had some shifts go on for ourselves.
They might not feel like, oh, well, you know, that's them,
but that's not me. And I remember feeling that. So,
do you remember
what happened for you? Where do you remember there being a time of shifting?
Do you remember there
being a significant event? Was it something that happened over time?
Did it just happen last week? Nathan? And now you're just riding the wave?
Like what's that
been like?
Yeah, I think um
I mean, obviously everybody knows what I talked about last week. That was here. So
I think that
one of the biggest shifts that we can make um or one
of the biggest tools we have to make the shift is the awareness
and it's,
I think the importance in
all this and I can't wait to hear everybody else. But
is the idea that
having somebody else to talk to about it
about any difficult kinds of conversations? Because
you're not in your head anymore
and it's outside of your head.
And now I can get a perspective from Andy who's like, Nathan,
what the hell are you talking about?
Why? Why are you saying that? Or Michelle and Jamie, you guys?
Well, I say that that too, if that's what's warranted in the conversation but
it requires finding people that
you feel safe enough to actually have these types of conversations with.
And, you know, it's interesting because
I don't know if I imagined a year ago that
I'd be having this kind of conversation on the internet.
So
that's a huge
shift.
Yeah.
Nathan, I wanna give you props for that because I've known you for, like,
10 years and I never thought I would be having
a sex talk with Nathan Todd. Like, really like legit.
Like I'd never thought that would happen.
And for my shift, honestly, like
it's, it's been a growth thing.
It, it really started senior year of high school,
like I was Uber nerdy guy and I hung out with the most
beautiful popular girls in school and they would just keep me around,
you know, as the cute nerdy boy.
But then
when I learned about my sexual identity and my like being LGBT Q and I was like,
wow,
it was like the door opened up,
these weights were lifted off my shoulders and I was like,
wow, I'm a unicorn and I'm,
I, I started transforming into this sexy thing
and it, it took a while, you know, but I started wearing clothes that fit me.
I started dying my hair and it's just those little tweaks right where I was like,
I don't have to have bad skin. What's that about? And there's contact lenses. Hello?
Um You know, and so like this stuff. But what I would tell
people take one thing,
one thing that you say,
hey,
if I did this today, I might feel a little better about myself.
It could be wearing a crazy,
you know, snake skin
zip up, you know, and just saying, hey, this is what I'm going to do
to make myself feel better today. I'll tell you what
my clothes and my shoes. I have lots of shoes that you can't see be
here are
some of the biggest things
that give me that little extra boost that when I'm not feeling sexy,
that'll do it. And then the other thing I'm going to be a little adult here, kids.
So I'm sorry if there's anyone under 18 listening but
18 and over, you're all good Andy. Thank God get used to seeing
naked.
Um because if you can stand in front of a mirror
and look at yourself naked.
Damn. I'm like I look better without my clothes on. I'm like this is
awesome.
So once you get there, you can really, you know,
it's all up appeal beautifulness from there. So yeah,
yeah, I I mean that just that part about the
being able to look in the mirror and be naked like that's,
that's huge.
And I say that from a lens of um going through emotional intelligence training
where one of the exercises we did was we had to draw ourselves naked
and then
circle the parts of ourselves that we didn't like.
Mm.
Uh But for the whole purpose of being around other people talking about that
and then stepping into what it's like to love that part of our body
because
every part of us serves a purpose and every part of us makes us who we are.
Um,
yeah.
And
I'm like,
I'm gonna get some jewelry for my talents now.
And do I
go
ahead?
I, I think that's,
that's one thing that's spot on and I kinda wanna back up
just a little bit and talk to Anna again about the strengths conversation
and I think you hit
spot on with
if you don't know what it is right now, that's ok.
But it's asking the people that are important in your
life and that have known you for a long time.
And I just wanted to offer that to say
something to the effect of,
hey, you know,
Michelle, I really value our relationship and
I would love to hear what you think is attractive about me
or Andy, I love your, our relationship.
I would love to hear what you think is attractive about me
and get
several people's feedback because guess what,
then you'll start seeing stuff show up and if
it shows up multiple times it's probably true.
Yeah,
I love
that.
I will say being recently divorced,
one of the things I did when I decided that I was ready to start dating again was, um,
since it was you know,
online was the option based on where I live and all that good stuff.
Um, when I went to start making my profile instead of picking my pictures,
I asked two very good friends of mine, one male and one female to pick the pictures.
Um, and that was a really good exercise because
I learned a lot about how
other people see me or how things that I might be self conscious of.
they don't even notice, you know, that sort of thing.
And I think the pictures they picked were really good, but had I done it on my own?
Um I might not have had that variety. I might not have had that, you know, that,
that moment of understanding better how other people see me. It just so happens.
Both of those people were able bodied coincidentally.
Um So that was also another part of it was that, you know,
there's,
there's kind of a like a mutual understanding we
have in the safety bubble of CP sunrise,
but the majority of us don't live in an area where we
have a safety bubble of CP sunrise anywhere but on the internet,
right?
Like I don't have anyone
around me. Unfortunately, that's, that's part of, you know,
the community.
So part of why CP sunrise is here is so that we could, you know,
create that um community.
So
I guess, you know,
if you are online dating, consider having friends and family members,
people you're close to help you with your profile.
I love what you said about
having somebody pick out the features that you
might not think are attractive in yourself.
I know I've done a lot of leg bashing on myself,
but I was with my partner for four years and one of the most, he loved my legs.
He loved that you could just throw them around and they were light and you could just,
I was like, well, if you didn't have a wheelchair fetish before we started dating,
you still,
you
know? No, you're welcome.
I made him into a devotee. So um
ok, but it's so interesting that he would be like,
you have like these beautiful petite legs that are so interesting.
And I'm like, God for my whole life,
I hated them. I thought they were the grossest thing on my body.
But the fact that this person adores them,
you know, he was crazy in other ways.
But he did love my CP legs and I thought, well,
wow. And it really made me think about my legs differently and start seeing,
you know, I'm not all the way there yet, but I did start seeing beauty in them where,
you know, before we started dating, I never thought they were attractive.
I
ever,
yeah.
But now I only go swimming in Speedos. So
it's
perfect. I like that.
It's ok.
You're gonna be all right, Nathan.
It's bright red right now. It's fine.
I love that so much and I just think that
it even applies outside of,
like, relationships that often what we hide in the shadows or, like,
our biggest struggle or whatever it is that ends up being our,
our biggest strength
if we unearth that
and allow it to be used for,
for good, instead of evil against ourselves, you know.
Um,
so I think if we're able to apply that same principle here where it's like,
what are the things that you're just like?
Oh, like
uh I don't know.
And how could those be things that maybe people really
find attractive in you?
Oh, how can mental health be sexy and for the ques
the gold,
I'm loving it.
Um I think the more we talk about these things and, and how could,
and when we say mental health, I'm, I'm thinking just as a, as a therapist,
you know,
it's not just all the great um mental health and the positive side,
but the struggle too. How, how can that be something that we
talk about normalize, talking about and then have that be something that
ends up being a superpower for us, you know.
Um
And I, I think that it just applies across the board here. This formula if you will,
I think in general,
us as a group are going to relate more to
people who are willing to talk about their struggles,
whatever they are uh versus people who may not have had
any adverse adversity because that's a common ground even if,
if it's different struggles.
Right.
So, um,
you know, you're probably not gonna be
ultimately attracted to someone who's had, you know, just a
interstate life.
Um, in order for you to be interested in them and them to be interested in you,
there's probably been some rocks in the road.
So
I think to, like
this goes back to my thought about emotional intelligence, right?
Like if you're dealing with some mental health barriers,
which a lot of us are undiagnosed or diagnosed,
I think you also have a level of emotional intelligence that you can tap into
and, and sort of use that as
you know, your your starting point of like where do I,
where am I on this spectrum? How can I use this to my benefit?
There's so much like
we as disabled individuals
have so many barriers that we navigate through whether it be physical or otherwise.
And we don't, we're not kind enough to ourselves
like we're,
oh,
it's
OK. I
see,
I
see.
Ok. I almost did the F word but I stopped. See Nathan. See I I did that for you.
Um
Oh yeah, from yesterday from our conversa
don't use those four
letter words, man. No, no, no, because those are naughty. But
I, you know, we, we are back as
individuals and I think like we are our hardest, harshest critics
and we don't consider ourselves
people that think we're, we're sexy but we are because of the things we do
that, how we navigate the world. No one can navigate the world like we can.
Hello?
Yeah. And, and skillful navigation through struggle is sexy.
Sorry,
it just is. And Eric asked, do you have time for other questions? Absolutely.
We're here till 630 I believe. So.
Get it. Eric.
I got a
bit
of time.
I'm
just saying if anyone's interested, hey,
that might have been the question
right.
There we go. Eric.
Yeah.
All right. We got one
never fit in, in high school.
Um Do that. I was in between groups. I was an athlete
but had girlfriends that had me around only
as
Andy said the guy friend
that was slash is feminine.
Oh Charles, believe me. I know about feminine all the time. I clock for a lady
all the time and now especially because
I have mask on.
It's like, oh,
hi, ma'am. I'm like, listen,
call me what you want. Just get me what I need. That's, that's my, I like
that. You know what I mean? I'm like
whatever, whatever I got to do to get what I need. Fine, whatever. But
there's beauty in
identity. I always tell people,
you know,
because there's some toxic masculinity happening in the
LGBT Q community and the straight community too.
We have one image of beauty, right?
And they're like, this is what beauty is. Six pack abs,
you know, they're built like Nathan. No offense, David. But,
but I'm like,
yeah,
I'm beautiful too and guys can be pretty,
guys can be pretty and still be guys. It's ok. They call us pretty boys for a reason.
It's fine.
There's nothing wrong with
being strong in our feminine strengths because
that's ok. I think
we think men should be a certain way, like, and that's
not always how it should be. I think we should be
however we wanna be and however we're created and find strength in that. So
I love it.
Yeah,
I love it.
I'm reading
the other.
Yeah.
So Eric says, I'm not sure how to phrase it,
but how do I deal with sexual fetishes with cerebral palsy?
So I, I think we would need a little clarification on what specifically you mean. But
there certainly are people out there that just fetishize disability in general.
Um
You know,
and so has anyone on the panel experienced that?
I mean, I turned my ex into a devotee. I know that
because the last,
the next guy he dated after me was like a guy that was very similar in function
and I was like, really, OK,
well, I, I created a monster. I said, but
I think here's the thing and I'm, I'm probably gonna,
the rest of the panel is gonna probably disagree with me.
Here's the thing
if they like you
because of you being
disabled or in a wheelchair.
Um
I think this,
it needs to be broader than that. Right.
They can't just have a fetish with somebody in a wheelchair again.
I'm going a little adult on the group again. But I, I went on a date with this guy and I,
I'm one of those people that don't have sex with
people right away because I want somebody to know my body
before we do the,
the d
because I feel like if they know my body, then I'm not so self conscious.
And so we, we hit the three month mark
guy was really great.
He kept talking about his mother on dates and how his
mother was in a wheelchair that should include me in.
But it didn't.
So,
so I,
I will, I will say this Andy, if, if the situation was reversed,
I would have just thought, oh, well,
that's why he's so instantly accepting because he
has a disabled person in his immediate family.
So I wouldn't have, that would not have been a clue phone for me.
I thought about that too. And then we went back to my place. I got freshened up.
I was in the shower,
I peeked through because I usually keep my wheelchair right by the
right by the restroom.
I peek through the guy is
enjoying himself
in my wheelchair
very much. And I'm like, whoa,
so I make a bunch of noise in the
restroom like I'm creating an accident or a catastrophe.
My wheelchair magically ends up in front of the door again
and I just make up some random excuse like,
oh, you know,
I have to get up early for work tomorrow because I wasn't,
I said to him later on, I said
if you're into me because of the four wheels that I sit on,
we're not going to be a match because I don't think about it all
the time and I don't want someone to remind me all the time.
You know, that my wheels are the thing that matter.
But
there's a spectrum I think I would say.
Yeah.
And I would say there's also on that number line of devotee people who
may want to spend time with you because them spending time with you,
they feel makes them look good or look
better in society.
Um, it's not necessarily sexual but it is annoying.
Um, and you will run into it. Um,
again, doesn't mean you sit the bench
but, you know, it's just like with regular friendships or relationships,
there will be people that seek you out to improve their
image and you have to watch out for those two.
Yeah. And Eric just said too, we're much more than that. 100%. And,
but I think that like Andy, you have that conversation of like, I'm more than that.
So if that's all you're really into, this isn't really gonna work out now,
there might be other people that are like, I like that you should.
I'm down,
there's someone there for every
one if I've found. Right. If I bump into a millionaire Devotee,
I,
you know, I'm sorry.
But I might change my, my thought process if he's a millionaire and he's like,
I really like the walls.
I'll be like, you can 50 shades of gray. Me. It's ok.
But,
yeah. Right.
But I, you know, it speaks to that safety thing and, like, being careful and
it's not, you know, it's instilled in us.
I believe that, you know, be careful,
people are gonna take advantage or you're more vulnerable or whatever it is and
it can lead to a mistrust. Um
And again, not to, it's more of an awareness I think.
And then the more we do the inner work on ourselves,
the more we trust our own intuition.
So that when we are feeling the like
that something's off because we're all like energetic beings, right?
So if we're feeling like something's off, we know that we can trust ourselves.
And I think too, the more that we work on our confidence, the more we know what we want
and then we're not gonna settle just because we're getting attention from
someone who might not fit the bill on what we're looking for.
So thank you for bringing that up, Eric.
I was just about to hit that you hit it right there.
Going back to one of our original questions in the
beginning of this whole series about what do you want
and if you want
that
devotee relationship
and that's what you want all for you.
Like there's no right wrong or
it just is what it is. But knowing that is the key piece,
right?
And you, you're worth too, like, you know, that you are worth
more than your circumstance
and, and your disability, right? Your disability is sexy and it's hot.
But
I wouldn't want someone to fetishize me because I'm Latino,
right? Like I don't want someone that's like I'm only in the Latin guys.
I'm like, that's great.
But the fact that you have that one specific thing worries me a little bit.
Um
So know your strength and know your value because I think like Michelle said,
if you go from that place,
then you're not gonna end up with someone you don't want to end up with.
Mhm
And I would encourage everyone if you've never done it.
Ask someone out, don't wait for them to come to you.
I get so frustrated when I get messages and Nathan knows I get a lot of messages.
Um when people say that, you know, they're, they're
struggling with the dating world.
And one of the first questions I ask is, have you asked anyone out?
And a lot of times they will say no, well, if you're frustrated in dating,
um you know,
you have to let people know you're interested and available
and a lot of times due to our disability,
we need to be the ones to break the ice.
So if it's something you've never done, I challenge all of you to, you know,
don't do it randomly do it with someone that you're interested in.
But you know, take, take the initiative to ask someone out,
Jimmy. Have you been looking at my tinder? Oh my God.
Oh my God.
I'm
one of those people that are like, I'm too pretty to ask people out.
They have to ask me. So I, I'll get over that. But now you OK.
Well, just, just, just one, just 10
And,
and here's the thing, right? I think this plays into just the human aspect of it too.
Like I think it plays into
how we view ourselves with gender roles.
I was just gonna say that.
So that's a lot of what I work with, with people is this idea of, of the,
what do we talk about gender roles?
And then what do we feel like
it says if we're the ones pursuing, you know,
there are messages that we internalize about these different things,
but there is an art to dropping the proverbial
handkerchief if you will the virtual one even.
And there is an art of that
to where if you're doing that to me that's you initiating too.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the, I'm gonna explicitly ask you out on a date.
But if you are creating a space of showing
availability in that way
that works too.
So if you and Eric's asking, you know, are there
um
private groups for people with CP to help with this?
Um People are scared I find with dating disability and I think that
that's a message that
is told to us. It's something we've seen.
It also kind of circling back to the very beginning of our conversation.
It has a nugget of truth.
There is uh there is some,
you know,
oddness that people have about like, oh,
can people with disabilities even have sex?
Do they want to date? Like who are these people
keep going? Just keep
going?
Because ok, if that person, if that person was scared,
that's not your person move on,
you will find someone who isn't.
So
if somebody's freaked out about your disability, here's how I,
every one of my profile's second photo,
you can see my wheelchair, right. You could see it.
It's there. I even put the little accessible emoji with a little rainbow.
So you know exactly what you're getting into.
You're like, hi, no questions.
And if somebody has pause and says, I don't know if I could.
Great because you've just narrowed down my selection process
to where I can only get
the people that I want to get.
Right.
I don't want to deal with people that are on the fence of like,
can I deal with this or can I not?
I, I don't have time for that
because it's not gonna change. Right. It's not gonna change.
They're not good with it. Day one
from here, kids, you know, of course, the therapist has to say, well,
it might change because I didn't believe it might
change that I would be in the wrong profession.
But the question is, do you want to spend your time?
Do you feel responsible for changing their mind
if that's not what you're signing up for?
Then next, like Jamie said, thank you. Next. Thank you. Next.
Because there's far too many people in this world
to be
expending energy on that. If that's not what you're wanting to do
when I was younger, I was a lot more thirsty because I thought
there wasn't enough people out there that wanted somebody with a disability.
So I was like, I'll take anything. I'll take anyone if they even look at me.
I'm like, hey, and I actually used my body
in some not so mentally healthy ways for myself just to prove that
I was beautiful and valuable.
But as I'm getting, as I got older and as I'm getting older, I'm like, listen
now you have to spend some time to get to know me before any
of this comes off and before like I give you any of my energy,
it's because I know my value now and that's
me.
Yeah,
we do that shit all the time.
Like that's, that's another level of overcompensation.
I say like, we over sexualize ourselves because of
where we lack.
No, I'm kidding.
That's my experience.
I struggled with
that Andy.
And actually when I first met Nathan, I was like, hey, I'm going through this thing.
We're like, I'm like,
not wearing makeup because I'm afraid that I'm
just putting on a literal mask every day.
And I had to like, go through this process of asking like,
do I just love makeup or do I just want to hide?
Like is and, and what's going on there? But
in the end it's like, no, I, I love doing it.
It's fun for me and it goes back to what you said Andy of like what makes you feel good?
And it's not that
I'm not gonna ever be
myself in front of people without like a full face of makeup.
But I mean,
it, it was dabbling on that line and I had to explore right? Nathan. You know, I had,
I had to explore,
I think about it like this
like
I feel beautiful in this but I don't do it for anybody else.
That's hot.
Good for you. Great.
I think I look hot like this. So I'm gonna do it.
So because it raises my frequency and my awareness of myself,
I love
that.
It's like wearing this
freaking shirt, right? Oh Yes. They
said I can't comment. I have to be nice.
No, that's for the kids Andy. So you're not allowed to comment.
I know I can't comment.
Oh, don't worry. I got one coming on Monday. I got a new, new one in the Arsenal.
And don't worry. Next time I see you in person, I will be wearing this shirt.
I love it.
I'm joking.
Oh, no,
Doctor Feyen.
Um Would you like to tell the group uh since we're getting towards the end of the hour,
um how they can,
how they can reach you and get and get in touch with you if they would like to
uh you know, consider doing, doing some additional work,
either with their sexual confidence or addressing their sexuality or addressing
positioning or sex itself. Any of the things that you specialize in?
Yeah. Oh, thank you so much.
I've had such a blast talking with everyone on here, the chat box.
Thank you for showing up everyone and for asking those questions.
Um Nathan and I are going to continue this work that we've been doing.
Um And we would love for anyone who is looking
for support in the arenas that we've been talking about
to um reach out and let us know. I don't think I have the ability to put the link um
in there myself, but I'm posting it in the private chat. If
any of you want to put it on
the
Facebook
live,
I just
did it.
OK, great. And that's just a form for you to
get on our email list. Get on our newsletter list.
Let us know what you're looking for and how we might be able to support you better,
creating some amazing content and a container for people to move through
and,
and get some of that benefit if you're finding like, hey,
this is kind of just the tip of the iceberg here and I,
I'm ready to dive a bit deeper for myself and for my relationship goals.
So you're, you're welcome to reach out to us,
you know, follow us on Instagram.
I'm um Dr
Fyan
Drfynan
on Instagram and I'm super active on clubhouse also.
So come and come and find me. Let's go hang out, let's talk.
You guys know where to find me.
Yes.
And if you go to my Instagram,
I'm really positive and really sort of aspirational in what I wanna do and
I'm willing to answer any questions if you chat with me as well.
Um If there's other LGBT Q stuff that come up happy to join again and, and do that,
Andy,
um I know how I was introduced to you
was uh regarding your podcast and your show there.
So would you like to just remind the group
um what
uh what channels you have as far as your podcast? Yeah, you guys can go on Facebook.
I have a Wednesdays with Andy
show every, every Wednesday
on Facebook
and I interview Nathan there a lot and we talk about emotional intelligence
and so every Wednesday I'm doing that and um, yeah,
just reach out to me and we'll continue this conversation.
Well, and definitely I don't want to undersell this too,
so one of our fellow members is going to be interviewed tonight
with Andy. So I wanna make sure, uh, Charles. Right.
Oh yeah, Charles Wilson. Um,
oh I said your name wrong. Charles. I'm sorry.
So Charles and I are gonna be having a conversation
in about an hour. So if you guys get bored and wanna spill some tea with us,
definitely do it. Um Yeah,
sounds good.
And Eric, yes, I do
to answer your question. Oh Get it, Eric. Hey
man.
And with that everybody you know
uh from sun up to sun down, we rise and we rise together.
So uh
you will hear from Jamie myself. You'll probably see Andy around
um
with future stuff for the community, just be on the lookout for that.
And if you have, we say this every time, if you have something you want
us to talk about,
make sure you're letting us know because that's how
we build all the conversations that we have here.
Uh Michelle, thank you so much for spending. Thank
you.
Thank you for having me. The space is so great. Thank you for creating it.
I'm still in your hair just so you know
it.
I
love
it.
How do I get in, in these relationships with, you know what you love it?
You love it. We're uh we're, we're you on the inside. Yes.
All right guys with that we will see you next time.
Bye.